Blind Ambition is the new film from co-directors Warwick Ross and Robert Coe. It follows the journey of Zimbabwean refugees Joseph, Tinashe, Marlvin and Pardon as they start a new life in South Africa, uniting to become the first Zimbabwean team to compete in the World Wine Blind Tasting Championships aka the Olympics of the wine world.
In the below interviews, one of the teammates, Tinashe Nyamudoka talks about his journey to becoming a sommelier, tasting different countries through wine, exercising and caring for his palate, and what it was like getting to experience the tournaments over again on film.
This interview is followed with a discussion between co-director Warwick and Robert as they explore their filmmaking process, the joys of wine, and what brought them on to the story of the Zimbabwe Wine Tasting team.
Blind Ambition is in Australian cinemas from March 3rd 2022.
Thank you very much for your time.
It's a pleasure.
How is it knowing that the film is now out in the world?
You know, we've been up and down with this thing. First of all, when the guys say, "Okay, guys, there's gonna be a documentary," there's that initial excitement. Then you start shooting that excitement, and the shooting is done. And because we don't know, [we're] expecting maybe in a few months the documentary will be out there. Then for a year, "Oh guys, we're still in editing. It's not out.” Then they tell you it's finished.
Then you say "Okay, so when is it gonna come out?" Oh okay, it's gonna be in the film festivals, Tribeca, all that stuff. Then you kind of lay low after Tribeca. "Okay, is it coming out on Netflix?" No. It's gonna go to cinemas first. Okay. Then after the cinemas, launching this. It's been a whirlwind. So now I understand how film works. But it's exciting that people are starting to watch it. You know, on a daily basis, I was getting questions: "When is the documentary coming out?" I think people have been anticipating long enough. And yeah, I can't wait to share the story with everyone.
I imagine it's got to be really exciting for family and friends, they all want to see it, they all want to experience it again, especially people who were part of your journey, part of your story. To be able to see it come to life in this manner is going to be very exciting for them too.
Definitely. It will resonate with a lot of people. That's what I think. We're just fortunate that it's the four of us who've got to go in front of the camera and tell the story. But I think it's a story that resonates with millions of people around the world.
Very much so and especially right now with the changes in the world that are happening, refugee stories is really very important. Let's start back when Robert and Warwick first got in contact with the four of you. What was your impression of them to start off with? What was in your mind?
You know, in my mind, I was like, "Geez, what?" Because if you are the subject, you never realise what's important. So for me, it was a normal story. I went through it, and it's just part of life. But I don't think it ever registered, the impact then. It was just okay, I'm that fortunate guy who's gonna have this story. But along the line and mostly so now, that's where you really start to get the vision of what they saw and how they wanted to tell the story in their own perspective and what they wanted to achieve. And I've always felt in my life that you know, I'm here for a purpose as well. And if my story can inspire and motivate someone else, that's living God's purpose for me.
It comes across in the film too, how much this story and your life journey means to not just you and your family and friends but to others, to strangers, to people who you might never meet? Has that kind of interaction been pretty exciting for you? Because I know that you do social media wonderfully. I've been looking through your Instagram and just loving the photos and seeing all these beautiful photos and this beautiful food and this beautiful wine. How is it connecting with strangers in the world for you?
It’s just amazing. I think for me, that's one part that wine has done for me. I grew up very introverted, not even wanting to converse, but I converse through stories, through pictures and sharing. I might be cooking, it might be a new wine, I might be with my family, with my daughters. I always get the reaction. People want to see more, they want to be part of it. And it's much more natural. It's not like I have to think about content. If I'm not feeling posting anything, I don't. The reception I get is the same. You never understand it if you're the one [posting], but the impact it has on other people is really heartfelt. Sometimes you get upset to really post because now people are worried about you. If you don't post or something, it's like, "Are you okay? You know, we need some motivation, please put something out." So it's something that I just actually enjoy, that I don't force. But it's my life with pictures and captions.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CZR7bgRjm7u/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
I must say you talking about being quite introverted and then finding wine and using that as a connection to talk to people - it reflects my story in a way where I was very introverted before doing film criticism and interviews, and then started doing interviews and talking to people like yourself, and then getting to share their stories opened up this whole world for me of all these other people who I was able to relate to and enjoy having discussions with. For you, what was it like in that moment when you realised that you had that connection, when you realised that this whole world has opened up for you? What did that do for you inside yourself?
I have to say in hindsight, connecting the dots -- so when I left Zim, I was probably twenty-two there, but I was a manager in a retail store managing even people old enough to be my parents. I had quite a senior position in society. And when I went to Cape Town, I couldn't find that job, and I ended up baking bread initially. Then when I got into restaurants, I was this lowly guy waiting. Not even waiting. I was polishing cutlery in the back, I was washing plates in the back. I vividly remember the money was better than what I was getting before. But I had this fright of going inside the restaurant and seeing all these people, it was frightening because of the introvert in me.
I think I was put in the restaurant situation just to gather myself and to have confidence and to be able to speak to millions of people. Now I can stand up in front of crowds, I don't have the fright. So I think for me getting into the restaurants was - because you have to communicate with people every day, it took me out of my shell. And when I realised this wine, this beverage - it wasn't like one specific moment, but it's just like gradual, gradual, gradual. You get someone who says "But, Tinashe, you really speak good about wine and you converse well. Why don't you take this wine study?" And I'll take the wide study. The more I started to learn more, the more I started to make in the restaurant. It just kept on, snowball, snowball, then working in different places, you learn new things, you get exposed to something else. I've always also had an entrepreneurial spirit to me, (and) it did kind of show in the end.
It's quite beautiful. It's really quite inspiring to hear your story as well. One of the things which I found very fascinating about Blind Ambition is that refugee stories don't usually end up (the people) going into places like wine-tasting, like sommelier. Being a sommelier is not really something that you get to see refugees doing. What does it mean for you to be able to show the world that these kinds of jobs, these kinds of careers are possible for people who are seeking new lives in new countries?
It's just the spirit of perseverance and the spirit of learning. In the end, obviously we left Zim because the country was in a bad state. But if I look at it in my own way, I can easily say it was a blessing in disguise, because I look at my compatriots who I went to school with who are still in Zim, and their lives haven't changed for the better. It depends, it can be a push factor, it can be a pull factor.
But once you're an immigrant or refugee, you get exposed to these things you might have never been exposed to. And my advice is just like when you get out of that comfort zone of your home, you know, explore a lot of things because you never know which one really sticks out. The opportunities come in a very subtle way. It's just like how ambitious and how open minded you are. I started with guys six years ago, ten years ago, waiting tables, but their lives never changed, but they never realised why they were in that place, why they were in that situation. It's something that I really reflected on, and I realised I could change my life for the better.
It's quite fascinating to see how you enjoy the wine and get to taste the wine and see all the different profiles of the flavours. There is this real connection to to the land where the wine has come from. Can you talk about that connection to country, to land through wine for you, and what it needs to be a sommelier and tasting all those different profiles there?
That's the beauty about wine because it's one of the beverage - maybe coffee and tea, you can do that to an extent - but the vine is just so unique that because of the soil, the climate aspect, the winemaking style, you can literally put your wine to its origin, to its land to a very high degree. I don't know any other beverage you can really do that with. For me, I think that is one of the intriguing parts. Here comes the challenging part when I was studying: I'd never been to Mosel Valley in Germany, I'd never been to Burgundy in France. But in your studies, you have to put yourself in that place. So wine has to test a sense of that place.
At that time, I was reading a book by Jonathan Nossiter who is also a former sommelier - when these things happen, it's like these moments with change - he said wine of origin can also be where the wine is taking you, the memories are taking you. And it was so profound, because whenever I picked a glass of wine, because I wasn't used to these blackcurrants, strawberries, cherries, when I smell the wine, I really smelled home, I really smelled the foods I grew up picking in the mountains with my grandfather, the mushrooms that they have. That was what I picked up first.
And usually what I would do in an exam out is say, okay, this is a red wine. If I smell this red wine and I smell maybe - there's a Zimbabwean fruit called masau. If I smell masau, I will definitely know that's a merlot. Then I'll say okay, merlot in European terms is blackcurrants, is red cherries is whatever, berries, berries. Then I'll pass my exam. For me, that notion really changed my wine enjoyment and the association that you could actually create your own wine of origin where the wine is taking you, rather than where the wine is coming from.
That's really beautiful to hear you talk about it that way. I'm not a wine drinker myself, so getting to experience how you enjoy wine and how you experience wine through what you're saying there and through the film was really quite powerful because it gets to show how you see the world in a different way. I'm curious, how do you exercise or train your palate and keep it in shape with the wine profiles?
I think staying sober and tasting quite a lot of wine is a training exercise. Like I say, wine is all about memory and reference. You've got to taste widely, you've got to taste every day. At the competition when we're really preparing, we're tasting at most fifty wines every day. You’re waking up wine, lunch wine, dinner wine. Until you sleep, you're tasting wine for almost like a week and a half. It's amazing because your palate adjusts itself, all your senses kind of zone in as well. So you can pick up the wine and pick up flavours and aromas.
I enjoy wine every day, I enjoy food and fruit. So that really trains your senses all the time. But there is no two ways around it, you have to taste as much as you can. And one of the difficult parts for our team was because we come from South Africa, Africa, which is itself, a wine-producing country. And if they import foreign wines, they're either expensive, or the ones which are there are just generic. We really had to fork out to really buy all the wines from the world. In 2018, we got the help of Master of Wine Andrew Caillard who's based in in Australia. He went to all his producers and like shipped almost one hundred wines from Australia to our base in France. And that's how we could get access to wines of the world and it made our life easier.
Wow. That's really exciting. Is there anything you have to avoid to keep your palate in shape? Like no smoking or no eating certain foods?
Chilli usually messes the palette. And flu is the worst nightmare. And every year one member of the team got attacked. 2017 I struggled a bit because (it was my) first time in Europe, you haven't acclimatised. So that's the one big challenge. I think having a cold is not the best for the sport. But some foods which are like really heavy, especially chilli, really disorientates your palette.
Rewatching those sequences where you are going through and testing the wines in the competition itself, what is playing in your mind as you're rewatching those sequences?
I think that the first one is pure agony. There's a clip when they're announcing the results, and then they really focused on me. Because they always count from backwards. So it was number twenty-six, Italy. Then you're like, "Oh yeah, so we're not last." And it was number twenty-five Zimbabwe, and I just sank, you know? We had so many… sorry, I'm even feeling it right now. (laughs)
We went there really confident and really excited and we were like, “this is the moment to make history, we're going to be number one”, and it was really deflating. But then going back to the answers was like, "Guys, we only have ourselves to blame because we ended up confusing ourselves because we weren't working as a team." Our coach didn't even have an understanding, Denis was doing his thing. It was just confusion at the tables. There wasn't any teamwork.
Going back to the wines, we realised geez, Marlvin said it was a Chemin and everyone said no, and you know, it ends up [being a Chemin]. So it wasn't the fact that we couldn't pick the wines. It was just we didn't work as a team. We didn't work as a unit. And yeah, going back through it, you can (laughs)… regret. But the next competition was really fun. It was us working together. Everyone knew his role. You know, we got some of the wine. Some of the wines were just unlucky. If we had managed to get two or three wines, we could have easily been in the top five.
How has it changed with COVID? Is the competition still going on?
Yeah, last year they did. This year I think it's still going on as well. And we might take another crack at it.
Fingers crossed.
But now we're incorporating other people as well, other young guys who have never been there. I'll probably take on a coaching role. But if need be, I can sit on the table.
I must say at the end of the film, I was so tied into it that I'm like I want to watch a whole series of this. I'd love to see each year we get to do the wine Olympics and stuff. I live in Western Australia, we have a booming wine population here down in Margaret River. So that connection to wine and the connection to the stories for me is there tangible, and that's part of the legacy of seeing all these people consume wine, taste it and seeing all the joy on people's faces, your faces, your team's faces. I just wanted to be in the moment for so much longer. Thanks very much for sharing your story.
And you only have ninety minutes! (laughs)
I know! (laughs)
It always amazes me because I don't know how many thousands of hours we shot and some moments don't end up making it, some moments make it in. But those guys are really good at what they do to be able to squeeze all those hours of shooting in ninety minutes, and having a story that's impactful is really great.
It's a real treat. I really enjoyed it. I am going to be pushing people to go and see it in cinemas. I know that certainly here in Western Australia, people are gonna love it and go along. Thank you, Tinashe.
It's a pleasure, Andrew.
Co-directors Warwick and Robert discuss their filmmaking process, the joys of wine, and what brought them on to the story of the Zimbabwe Wine Tasting team on the next page.
Thank you both for joining me to discuss your film. It's a beautiful film. I really enjoyed Red Obsession too, which I thought was a really wonderful film. I'm not a wine drinker, so I find these kinds of films really fascinating and enjoyable, because my family is really heavily into wine. At least now I have conversation starters to be able to go "Brilliant, I know this about wine." And Blind Ambition gave me a little bit more to be able to go "Ah yeah, I know how to pronounce that now." Are you both wine drinkers, big fans of wine?
Warwick Ross
Which makes me a very big drinker. (laughs)
Robert Coe
I'm a big fan of wine and a big drinker. But Warwick goes a step beyond this.
(laughs) Where did your interest in wine start?
Warwick Ross
Ah, gosh, yeah, I haven't been asked that for a long time. I was actually a non-drinker completely when I was younger through university, never drank a drop. And then I think it was something about getting involved in the film industry which I've been in for thirty-five -- more than that -- years. There's something about alcohol and film that go very well together. I think the film industry kicked off my interest in alcohol which then sort of skewed more wine, thank God, instead of hard liquor. So that's really where it began and then as time went on, more and more and more interest until I eventually planted my own vineyard on the Mornington Peninsula down in Victoria. And so I'm a vintner and a filmmaker at the same time.
I was going to ask about that gap in your filmography. There's the Yahoo Serious films, and then all of a sudden Red Obsession. I'm like, where has he been all this time, what's he been doing? So that makes sense.
Warwick Ross
It takes a long time to plant 23,500 vines.
At least you're coming from an informed perspective. You've both produced some really interesting films. Rob, I'm a big fan of Beast, I thought that Beast is a bit of an undervalued film. Of course, I just mentioned the Yahoo Serious films. And then we're heading into this journey into these wine documentaries, which is so different. For both of you, was it the stories that were in these films that were more interesting? Or "Look, this is a story about wine, we know there is an audience for stories about wine"?
Robert Coe
For me, it was definitely there's something interesting in this story. And it was just lucky that it was in the world of wine. I think after Red Obsession, Warwick and I were always looking for another story in the wine world because it was so much fun. But we weren't just going to tell any story. It had to be really special for us to want to go and do it. And when we came across the story through Jancis Robinson, the master of wine out of the UK via our associate producer Andrew Caillard, like "Here's a story for Warwick and Rob, it's about these four Zimbabweans." It was like (snaps fingers) "Done. Let's talk to them. We need to Skype these guys immediately and see what's happening."
It was that initial excitement about these four guys who were trying to break barriers and break into an industry that they never been to that was a bit of a hook for us. But what really sank it in was when we spoke to the guys initially on Zoom. They were just such fascinating guys, they were so different. One was the philosopher, one was the joker, one was a serious guy, and they weren't all uniform. And they had great rapport. There was a good foundation for storytelling there. And I guess we did have to take a bit of a risk by just jumping in and seeing where would they go? Definitely, you know, glad that it was in the world of wine, because it's so much fun. And it is a world that we know, but very much driven by story, first and foremost.
Warwick Ross
I think also just dealing with something real. I've been involved with scripted features for a very long time, but the step into documentary was one that was just so satisfying with Red Obsession. We felt that to have people input on a real story as things were unfolding was sort of more compelling really than then then spending time on a set day in day out doing, you know, one scene, two scenes from a script. This was also completely unpredictable. Documentary by its very nature is something you don't control. And I think there's something very exciting about that as well. Because you never quite know where you're going with it. You grab hold of a story and then you hold on and let it take you.
With the story that is being billed as the Wine Olympics, there is this real sports tone to it which has that competition vibe. You don't know where it's going to go, you don't know if they're going to win, if they're going to lose. What's that like for you as filmmakers just sitting back and watching this journey take place? There are moments where it feels like a freefall as well, especially when they head over to Europe and they employ this really larger than life guy to coach them along? What's it like sitting on the sidelines and just watching all this take place?
Robert Coe
It was exhilarating and frustrating at the same time. The very first time we filmed the guys together was at the barbecue. So it was lucky that chronologically in the film, that was actually one of the first scenes to occur, because it was also the first that we shot. And being able to film that and get a sense of how they operated and worked and see Tinashe guess the wine right, that kind of blew our minds. We were like, "Oh wow, these guys are actually really good."
You sort of jump in and go "They're gonna win this thing," and you've only just started to getting to know them and filming them. But along the way, we realised that these elements of chaos with Denis, that was great for the drama, what was going to drive us through the second act. With how they were going, they definitely had their ups and downs. The rigorous tour that we did through all those places was exhausting. I mean, we were exhausted and we were getting up at the same time, going to bed at the same time as them.
And we were thinking "How are they going to be able to perform well when they're going to be so exhausted?" You know, concern about that, concern about Denny at the actual competition. So it really was a wild ride that had us constantly shifting as we were going along, you know, in our heads rewriting, like "This is how it would go or this or maybe that way." But ultimately, we were so thankful for a lot of the drama that did unfold, and it helped push along the story.
You're on the edge of your seat at times. And the brilliance of this is there are heroes and there are villains. And the main characters are just so enjoyable to spend time with and they're larger than life. And they're also really into their wine. What I love is, as somebody who only really understands wine from the kind of perspective of sniffing it and then tasting it, not actually drinking it as such, but understanding there's ‘a bit of this and there is a bit of that’ in there, I didn't realise that it's like a puzzle. This is really just like a puzzle, finding out exactly where things are from. Did you get to experience that kind of puzzle narrative watching this take place? And did you get to taste the wines while you were actually filming? Obviously, you've got to try and stay as sober as possible. Did you get to experience the lock opening moment that they got to experience?
Warwick Ross
Yeah, we did. But we play this game ourselves a lot. So I'll pull out a wine at dinner one night. There might be eight or ten of us around the table. Nobody knows what it is and you pour it and people have to start guessing. And often the first question is, is it old world or is it new world? That's often one of the basic questions. So you're trying to determine if it's from someplace in Europe, mainly Europe. Or new world meaning South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, the United States. And there are distinctive differences between wines that are made in those places. You're struggling with the varietals.
So is this a Pinot Noir? Or could it be Gamay? It's probably not a Cab Sav. It's not as big and bold as a Cab Sav. It's not as tannic. So you look for those clues. And there's a lot of satisfaction if you get close. I mean, as somebody says in the film, it's almost impossible to nail it exactly. But to get kind of close is really satisfying. It's a great game to play.
Australia is notoriously a wine-loving nation. So it seems like something that I think that more people would really take on board, especially after watching this film. And I hope it becomes a success, because this is the kind of film that is a real conversation starter. One of the aspects which I really liked is that it doesn't shy away from the reality of where these guys have come from. This is not only just a wine story, but it is equally a refugee story. How important was it for you to showcase the journeys that they all took to getting to South Africa?
Warwick Ross
Look, it was really important for us that everybody understood the journey that they had taken. Ostensibly, this is a story of four guys going into a competition. And we knew it was more than that. But the question is, can you reveal that? You know, can you make an audience see what is deeper, what the levels are below that surface. Talking with the four guys one at a time and hearing their stories of hardship, of fleeing across the border from the repression of Robert Mugabe, arriving in a place that they thought would be a safe place, meaning South Africa, a place that they thought would have opportunities, was fraught as well. There was discrimination, xenophobic attacks, they suffered starvation. So they put up with a lot just to survive, let alone become familiar as this, let alone go to this international competition.
The hurdles that these guys had to get past were hurdles that generally nobody else has to overcome before you can enter this world of wine-tasting. There were racial barriers. There were religious barriers, financial barriers, cultural. They weren't meant to be in a business that serves alcohol. You know, they're Pentecostal Christians. Alcohol is not allowed as one of the characters says in the film. And some of the guys actually needed permission from their parents. And the question from the parents back was, "Do you think this is God's calling that you enter this career path?" "Yes, I think it's God's calling." And that's how they entered this world.
They started a long way behind everybody else. Zimbabwe has no wine culture to speak of. To become a sommelier is one thing, but to decide to challenge at the World Championships against twenty-three other nations, all of whom are white - if you looked at the faces in that competition, they're white faces from one side to the other. And only at our table, at the Zimbabwean table are there Black guys, four Black guys competing. This was groundbreaking, just groundbreaking, so it was not so much about the competition, it was all those other things which were extremely important.
Robert Coe
I think the guys themselves are undeniably fun. They are really fun guys. And we approached Blind Ambition with… there is a way to convey that levity in the film. But without showing where they've come from and what they have endured, you don't get that weight that the film needs to carry where the story is really powerful. And so it was really important for us to make sure that we addressed those and people understood exactly where they've come from, what they've gone through, and the amazing outlook on life they had now. I've never met more optimistic people than they were despite what they've endured, and especially the fact that they still love Zimbabwe. All they want to do is go home and work and live in Zimbabwe, which is remarkable.
What I love about this is that this is an Australian film, you're Australian filmmakers and you're creating something that is a story that is about not Australian stories. There is a global aspect to Blind Ambition, there is a united global aspect to a) wine; and b) refugees. The people of Africa and Europe and all these different places coming together to celebrate something as a united force. I'm curious for you: the identity of this film - does it matter? Or do you see it as a global film? Do you see it as an Australian film? Or do you see it as a global film?
Warwick Ross
I think I think as Australians, we're very proud that it's an Australian film. But I think it shows the evolution of these Australian film industry, that Australians can tell stories that are not always about Australian subjects. I mean, the world seems to be getting smaller and smaller all the time. And Australians are very good at observing and seeing what is happening with the world and being able to find those stories and to be able to tell them. So I think it's a maturing of the industry that we can do this. I mean, you would even say Baz Luhrmann - he did Gatsby, and it's certainly not an Australian story, by any means. But there's a perspective that he brings to that as well. So I think it's a very important thing that it's recognised Australians can tell stories of a global nature.
Last year was a really turbulent time for Australian film industry and one of the things that was almost on the chopping block was the Gallipoli clause. How important was that for making a film like Blind Ambition and telling these kinds of global stories? For you as producers and directors, how important has that been to have that clause there?
Robert Coe
I mean, for us personally and I think for the broader industry, it's vital to be able to take a leap and attempt to tell these stories. And these stories ultimately may be told by Australians about maybe non-Australian subjects. They are universal themes that resonate with everyone. And I think that that's important that we don't restrict ourselves to just being too introverted with our storytelling. It is vital that we tell Australian stories, no doubt.
The Gallipoli Clause allows us to take that extra jump and dive into the unknown and explore worlds we don't normally explore. I mean, one of the reasons that we make documentaries is to provide a window into a world that people don't normally see. And you can't pick a more bizarre window that we've chosen for this one. We ourselves thought that it was bizarre. So I think that we're incredibly grateful to Screen Australia and the support that they provided to this film. But in terms of the producer offset, the Gallipoli clause is something that we probably wouldn't have been able to make film without. That's true.
And for you, Warwick, obviously the changes throughout the years in the film industry, what have you seen change and evolve with the industry? And where do you see it going?
Warwick Ross
I think the Australian industry has always been very dependent on on government funding to one degree or another. And people will argue that 10BA when it was first brought in was wonderful, because it created a sort of a flowering of the industry. It allowed people to make all these films at the same time. There were tax advantages to people. So a lot of films got made that maybe shouldn't have seen the light of day because the investors were doing better than had they had paid tax. They were doing much better. So it didn't matter if the film worked or it didn't work.
But I think that's the price you pay for the other films that do get made that are worthwhile making. And if we didn't have the level of government support that we have had in the past, and it's had its rises and falls, of course, and you've seen the results of that as well. But the industry relies heavily on some sort of subsidy to be able to tell these stories. And I think it's really important that the government recognises that and continues doing this sort of thing.
I agree. Because we get to see these beautiful films. I think of your films, I think of Jennifer Peedom's films and I think of so many different filmmakers who tell these stories from an Australian perspective about the world. And being a little bit selfish, they help inform my perspective of Australia a little bit more. And that's what I love about watching these films because I get to reflect on our relationship with wine, our relationship with refugees, and how we treat these different entities and these different people here at home and makes me wish "Oh, we should probably do something more here or do something more." Is that the hope for you as filmmakers to have people reflect on not only the story but themselves and their lives?
Robert Coe
Definitely. I think that ultimately as filmmakers, we start off and we have visions for the stories that we want to tell. But knowing the idiosyncrasies of all individuals, there's just this notion that people always project. And I love that. And I love talking to people after they've watched the film and understanding their view of it and what they took away. And that actually really makes the process so rich, you know, for us to be able to tell a story, for it to be interpreted multiple different ways, or people pick up on elements. There's never a right or wrong answer in film. We have an idea of what story we want to tell, and then the fact that people interpret it differently, that's just wonderful. And I love that aspect.
Warwick Ross
I agree. Just to finish off, I was just going to say that the takeaway for us for this film that we've made is, and one of our characters says, "Some of the world's most wonderful minds don't fit where we think they should be, where we think they should go." And if anything, if there's any takeaway, it's to be open to the rewards that will come with inclusion and diversity. I think that's -- we felt that very strongly through the making of this film.
Well, I think it's a brilliant film. You both deserve all the accolades and congratulations, and it's one that I look forward to getting behind and supporting and championing because I've watched Red Obsession, and this one is a continuation of it. I'm hoping that we get to see more wine stories from you.
Warwick Ross
(laughs)
Robert Coe
(laughs) Thanks, Andrew.